“I never intended to spar with you Gary”

I think you have just clearly demonstrated that that would be your wisest approach. If your convictions are as you claim them to be then your very presence on this website is hypocritical.

To all others who might read this exchange please know this…while you may have heard others spout this type of judgemental diatribe, tjazz does not speak for all Christians and he certainly does not speak for Christ.

Take Care,
Gary

I never intended to spar with you Gary, but I’ll tell you one last thing. I don’t know what type of Christian you are but the God I know is not a sappy, floppy character, maybe if you would fear Him and stop misrepresenting Him, you might receive mercy and even get to heaven. I pray he has mercy on you.

I seems your emotions are robbing you of the ability to have a productive dialogue. Your first paragraph to me is so devoid of substance that I won’t even bother with a response.

However I do want to take issue with your second paragraph.

You said:
“The bible is not an issue of semantics. You must study it because you want it to be useful to you. You can twist words from now till kingdom come, sex outside of marriage will still remain a sin before God and it will still be damaging to whoever practices it.”

It is PRECISELY because people do tend to twist words to their own understanding that it is absolutely necessary that we carefully study the words, the root words, the local cultures, the historical settings and context, the “semantics” of words and how they are and were used when written, etc. If you are unwilling to accept even the premise of such studies then I do not know how you could ever hope to claim your opinions are anything more than the ramblings of someone whose mind is closed to anything beyond his own limited understanding.

You, my sincere if misguided friend, do not have the authority to label anything a sin, only God can do that. And to find out what He said is sinful, we must make every effort to remove all personal, or even church induced, bias from our understanding of His Word.

Take Care,
Gary

You make some wonderful points and I agree with a large part of what you said. But one point I have to differ with you is in stating that the author’s position “that the Bible does not say anything about sex” is taking his points out of context. To differ on the interpretation of Biblical references on sexuality is not necessarily a “naive” position.

You make the statement that

“The prohibition of sex before marriage is not a punishment, and it was never intended to be a way to control people.”

Where you and I differ is in where this prohibition came from. I believe it came from church tradition and misinterpretation of scripture rather than from God. Believe me when I tell you I have spent much time searching the scripture for truth and there is no verse you can quote to me which would make me suddenly say, “Oh my goodness I did not know that was in there”. Through careful analysis of the historical context of a particular passage and an attempt to understand the translation process from original Greek and Hebrew into English as well as I can, I have come to the conclusion that we have a sexual freedom granted by God that church tradition denies.

I do totally agree with you in stating that I too don’t know whether people should be having sex before marriage or not. But that comes from not knowing them individually and whether or not it would be in their best interest. This has much to do with the maturity and responsibility of the individuals involved. If on the other hand I believed God simply forbids it, then there would be no doubt in my mind that it would be wrong as I do not put my views and desires above that of my creator. However the fact remains that it is very clear in scripture that what is sinful for one individual is not sinful for another and the difference lies in the attitude of the heart and not in the act or action itself.

You make a wonderful point though for those of us who believe in God. Truly we should ask God before having sex…much like anything else of importance we undertake in our lives. If I choose to go ahead and do something that I believe in my heart is sinful, than for me it is sin even if for another it is not. Unfortunately this is the condition in the heart of most Christians today because we have blindly accepted from the church the notion that this wonderful gift from God is sinful in all but the most narrow of interpretations. Down through the ages the church has taken a severely WRONG interpretation of scripture and used it to perpetrate all kinds of horrors on the masses. I simply believe this is one more area that they “got it wrong” and we are in the middle of a time of awakening.

Take Care and by all means…keep searching for the truth.

Gary

I think Christ Pro Erotic’s argument is skewed. He takes the position of denying that Scripture says anything about premarital sex, which simply untrue. There are numerous references in Scripture regarding marriage and sexuality, and I don’t think that any article about Christianity and premarital sex is complete without some discussion of these Scriptural references. To simply state that there is no specific reference in Scripture is a bit naive and it is unfair to people who are really struggling with whether or not they should have sex before marriage.

I’m not going to jump up behind the pulpit and start preaching. Like I said, I had sex before marriage and I still consider myself to be a good Catholic. However, I also understand that I have damaged myself by having premarital sex, in ways that I am only now discovering in my 10th year of marriage. I don’t feel that I am going to be punished or damned for having sex before marriage, because I believe in a loving and forgiving God, but I do feel that God is helping me understand some of the ways that I hurt myself and others, including my partners, by having premarital sex.

I’m not saying that the Church is doing a good job of handling the sexuality issue either. Sometimes it seems as if the Vatican is not even remotely paying attention to what’s going on in the world, and I think that the clergy (and the congregation) are a little too quick to judge those who decide to have sex before marriage. As Jesus said, judge not lest ye be judged.

And I think that’s really what’s at the heart of it. Sex, as an act of love, is beautiful, and it is a gift from God. It was never meant to be evil or sinful. It is an expression of love between two people, but it is also important to remember that it is an expression of love by God for us, His Creatures. God doesn’t want us to use sex as a weapon, nor does He want us to make judgments about one-another when we decide we want to have sex. The prohibition of sex before marriage is not a punishment, and it was never intended to be a way to control people. It is really meant to provide a guideline for those people who are in love and want to have sex.

To be honest, I don’t know if people should be having sex before marriage or not. I think that if a couple is truly in love, and they want to express that love physically, then sex is a beautiful way to do that, whether they are married or living together or whatever.

Although I disagree with most of this article, I do agree with the main point; the responsible thing for anyone to do, if they believe in God, is to ask Him for guidance before they decide to have sex before marriage. The hard part is listening to what He says, if we don’t like what He has to say. But that’s always the problem, isn’t it?

Since when is a dictionary of the English language any use in studying acient greek? The root word for fornication comes from the greek porneia and had nothing to do with sex outside of marriage. It had to do with a very specific type of sexual perversion. We have taken a word that had a specific meaning and given it a definition that had nothing to do with God’s Word. We may have a definition in our modern English dictionary that supports what you say…but if you want to know what God thinks it requires studying His Word with true principles of biblical research.

Before you condemn my input know that I am a Christian. I also believe that the church has totally distorted the truth of God’s plan for sexuality. I attend a conservative church weekly, teach adult subday school, and believe we have a sexual freedom totally denied by the church but blessed by God.

If you want to really know God…search the scriptures with honesty and you will find Him.

I was expecting the usual balanced approach with this article, with an intelligent discussion of the pros and cons of premarital sex. Instead, I got a biased diatribe against the church, paired with “sex advice for singles” that I could get from the back of any condom box. How exactly does this article help anyone who is struggling with whether or not they should have sex before marriage?