First, I am a Christian and proud of it. Second, I am heartsick at those who would speak so vocally for Christianity and destroy the witness of the church to a world that so desperately needs God’s message of love and forgiveness. But for these comments I will address the issue of sexuality and the church since that is the focus of the article. Obviously my views are based on the premis that the Christian Bible represents God’s revelation and complete truth. If you reject this belief then save us both the aggrevation and skip the rest of my post.

I was raised to believe sex outside the bounds of marriage was absolutely sinful. In fact I have preached and taught this myself many times over the years. But I was also raised to study the word on my own and not take everything a preacher told me at face value. One truth in studying scriptue is to analyze any interpretation in light of other scripture. When we find an apparent contradiction we must recognize that our interpretation is in error. There is perhaps no more difficult issue to deal with than sexuality in understanding God’s Word. To those of you who believe there is absolutely no room for disagreement in believing God forbids sex outside of marriage I urge you to apply true principles of Biblical research to your beliefs. I did and found out my positions, which I had been taught were absolutely unquestionable, were not supported in scripture. Some in this discussion have defined fornication as sex outside marriage. A basic study into the original greek will show this definition comes from church tradition and not from God’s Word. Sexual Immorality is another catch phrase to mean whatever the preacher or church wants to define it as. Without going into great length suffice it to say I was shocked at what I found when looking honestly at this issue.

When we study God’s word we find many great men of the faith have enjoyed tremendous sexual freedom that was and is Blessed by God. Our Christian views that so narrowly define “God’s plan” for sexuality simply do not hold up to God’s word. It takes courage to reach such a controversial position, but it is absolutely necessary if we are honest in our search for truth. Many men of courage have been severely persecuted by the church and its members when they have challenged views that were held as absolute. From these brave individuals willing to challenge false beliefs in the church we have seen the coming of the Reformation, the abolition of slavery, the end of female oppression, and many other horrors justified by the “church”. It is my sincere belief that a reforming change within the church concerning our understanding of sexuality is long overdo.

I don’t propose to change God’s word…rather to rightly divide it. Please don’t respond if you can not be rational. Healthy dialogue is welcome.

You are right… We can be a little harsh, or at least the word fundamentalism, can be a little harsh. It’s definitely evoked emotion in a lot of folks! But that’s our goal here is to get people talking and thinking…

I am a guy and in a similar position to Rafal. I am sympathetic to both parties. Rafal is trying to deal with his unwanted emotions … yes he says some dumb things, but he too is a product of his environment, choices etc.

Thanks for your disclaimer, your honesty etc. I liked what you said (and found it personally helpful). Ultimately I believe you are right, he needs to accept her or move on.

I think you are a little hard on “fundamentalism” (lets just say conservative Christians or cC for short, I find it less pejorative). I am socially conservative, I think the ideal situation is for each person to only have sex with one other (their spouse). This is my opinion: lets say it is representative of cCs generally.

I think there is a tension between promoting these values within cC, and not stigmatising those who have different views (eg OK with pre-marital sex) and those who hold these views, but lapse either occasionally or regularly. IDEALLY this tension would not exist, but because refraining from sex is difficult and to a certain extent unnatural, it gets talked about a lot, which leads to the guilt etc.

There is a PART of cC that deliberatly promotes misinformation about sex (eg that condoms not particularly effective or that having sex before marriage will ruin your life). This I think is wrong, since it is deliberate manipulation.

thanks again!

It’s the ‘fundamentalism’ aspect that we have great issue with. And by fundamentalists, we mean those who feel that everyone needs to share their beliefs and do not accept the belief systems of others. (Many of these people will kill or die trying to convert others.)

These are the close minded individuals that we are referring to. Not all Christians are closed minded. Many are wonderful people. The people that we ’slam’ are the ones who are bitter and judgemental of others and feel that I need to agree with them and their beliefs.

On the premarital sex issue… It is absolutely your right to wait and it is the right of others not to. The important thing in a relationship is that you are with someone who shares your beliefs – or someone that you can accept their beliefs when they’re different from yours

We do not ostracize anyone for their beliefs or choices in life. That’s exactly the point that we’re trying to make with this article. In short there’s nothing wrong with waiting and nothing wrong with NOT waiting. It should be an individual choice and we should not be judged for that choice – whichever way we decide to go.

We’re not the ones judging here – the man in this article is the one judging his girlfriend for her past decisions. We have nothing against religion or Christianity and were just stating an observation that individuals with a strong religious upbringing ‘tend’ to be more judgemental of others. Certainly not everyone behaves this way, but from our life experiences and the questions we receive, it seems very common.

We don’t pretend to understand everyone’s individual beliefs…

We do not pretend nor claim to be medical doctors or counselors. When someone asks us for advice, we simply tell them what we would do in a similar situation – that’s what advice is.

Secondly, I would like to point out that you all seem to demonize religious fundamentalism when the issue isn’t religion, it is how a person is applying these concepts sparingly and being hypocritical about when to enact his beliefs. If Rafal followed what he is attempting to judge his wife with, he would never have had sex, and he wouldn’t be having it in his current relationship, and MOST OF ALL wouldn’t be judging her about what he perceives as past mistakes in the first place.

As one gentleman put it, Christians do not preach about the evils of sex. We preach against PREMARITAL sex. I’ve grown up in a very religious environment where we hold conservative views about sexual relationships and I have no reservations or fears about the prospect of a sexual relationship within my marriage. We believe that sex outside of marriage is wrong. Regardless of what YOU believe, it is unfair for you to call us “close-minded” or “judgmental” because of the beliefs we espouse. Ironically, it makes you rather close-minded and judgmental for doing so.

There is nothing unhealthy about wanting to preserve one’s virginity until after marriage. Your reasoning is a bit transparent anyway. From my experience, Rafal is an unhealthy rarity in the religious community. You speak as if EVERY man who believes like me only values a woman as an object and for their sexuality, and that simply isn’t true. I am in a relationship right now with someone who shares my beliefs about premarital sex, yet both of us have had sex with other people. I don’t hold it against her, just as she doesn’t hold it against me. I could no more judge her for her past sexual relationships than I could if she partook in ANY thing that I view is immoral or wrong. It simply isn’t my place to be upset with her about it. I’ve yet to have sex with her, and I hope that if I ever do, it will be after a wedding ceremony.

Besides, the guilt that you seem to believe we have for having sex outside of marriage is completely against the basis of Christian thought, and that is that through the mercy of Christ, we can live a life WITHOUT guilt about our past mistakes. I don’t beat myself up about committing what I believe is a sin. If someone does, they obviously do not understand what the Christian faith really preaches.

“Perhaps she will even know what she is doing?” That is the most ignorant reason for advocating premarital sex I’ve ever heard. Think about it. If my first sexual encounter was with my wife on our wedding night, how would it be any different than my first sexual encounter as a 16 year old boy? As a couple, we can still discover new things about our sex life, just as if we were with other people. The only difference is that we will discover them together. I don’t understand what is unhealthy about that.

I am rambling, and really can’t address all of the false assumptions you all have made about what we believe. Essentially, you are guilty of the same prejudicial, hypocritical, “close-minded” attitude you accuse us of having. I find it shocking that you are attempting to advise people about their sexual relationships and you are not prepared to take their beliefs into consideration simply because you disagree.

From your perspective, if there is nothing wrong with a sexual relationship outside of marriage, what is wrong with waiting until after marriage to have sex if that is what both people want? Would you ostracize a heterosexual for not having homosexual desires? No, because you realize that not everyone is different. Where as I desire to have a sexual relationship with one person, and to discover everything about my sexuality with them over a lifetime, another person may prefer to engage in what I would view as promiscuous sexual relationships. It is extremely ignorant of you to view what we believe as some disease of which we must be cured. I am just as happy with my relationship as anyone else. I could show you hundreds of married couples who feel the same way I do. Perhaps you should be a bit more “open-minded” about other people’s beliefs.

If virginity is that important to this guy why did he get involved with a divorced woman? A-Duh! This one’s a no brainer! And what gall to act like she should be a virgin! Like she doesn’t have the right to have been in other relationships? She’s already an adult, it’s not like that should be so suprising. And I suppose now she’s good for no one now that she has already been with other people? Oh yeah, let’s throw her on the dung heap, she’s used goods!

Puhleeze, this guy doesn’t even deserve half the respect you gave him. He shows no respect for his partner, that’s for sure.

So, somehow, religiously, it’s OK if a person gets married, fucks, divorces, marries again, fucks again, and goes through this? Is that person better than the other person who didn’t rush into a marriage but still had very fulfilling relationships with plenty of good sex and communication?

Also, sexual connection is a very important factor for a successful relationship – how the hell do you figure that out before you get married if you cannot have pre-marital sex?

Marriage is a man-made conception and an economic unit created by need for a structured society. Get over it. God didn’t make marriage.

I can kinda see where he’s coming from. When I was 16 (and a virgin) I had this girl at school who was so eager for me. My friends thought I should go for her but I just couldn’t – she was 15 but she had already had an 18 yr old boyfriend and slept around with a few guys already. My friends’ logics were “she’ll put out, you’ll be cool to lose your virginity fast.” whereas for me it was a bit uncomfortable. I guess it’s the male part in me that did not want to be the underdog in that game, and also some sort of intimidation based on how I was raised a bit to the conservative side (not too conservative though).

That being said, I think it would be worthwhile for him to get around it – it might be even more pleasing to know that the “wild” girl is now settling down for the one special guy. You’ve tamed her. You should be proud of it, and just accept it as a blessing that she’ll go towards monogamy for you.

If I’m already doomed according to the Book of Corinthians, well, I have lost all hope.

DUHHHHH.

Good thing, because I was really confused as I read through about the first half of it. We get our share of criticism with the topics we talk about, but it just wasn’t clicking for me.

Have an awesome day!
Dan